That won’t be simple though. You have 4 engine different manufacturers and tuning. One engine per year would be a nightmare of testing. And if you get it wrong, what do you do after round 1? Continue? no way.
This obsession with seals and reliability is a red-herring. It causes immeasurable damage and mis-allocation of resources. This ain’t why people race classes like this.
Sorry, I don’t think that’s accurate (unless your local tracks very peculiar). the 100cc classes we run here are same pace as Rotax/X30 when run at original weights and grip, so I just can’t believe the 60cc classes are going the same pace unless they are the same pace as Rotax/X30. Formula A used to match ICC back in the day too at some tracks.
Maybe they are too fast for kids, but that’s a whole different debate.
Faster doesn’t mean more expensive either. What makes things expensive is competition levels. Briggs L206 would become the most expensive class overnight if it was deemed on the F1 pathway. This is partially proven by Honda Cadet in the UK which uses lawnmower engines that often used to sell for eye-watering sums of money.
IN addition the 6 year homologation and getting engines to last a number of hours is a red-herring. In these types of classes that’s not what motivates people.
well what would be the best way to counter the fact people come with 10-15 engines and the same number of chassis ?
The budget is mainly a function of the perceived value of said racing series for competitors. I raced a World Championship Maxter Formula A engine at Rye House club in F100cc. The engines cost around $200 each iirc. The value when we bought them had plummeted because Formula A was done and dusted at that point. They are worth a bit more now due to rarity and so on. So you can take the exact same technical components and have vastly different ‘costs’.
L206 engines could cost $20,000 each if it was on the ‘F1 ladder’ and you HAD to get the best engine you could possibly find.
Of course the FIA can increase costs if they add complexity to the engines because the cost of development will be levied on the competitors (especially when it’s for FIA championships), that’s why KF was such a disaster. It’s not purely a function of perceived value, but it plays the most important role.
I am of the mind that you make the technical regulations as simple as possible. That was there’s no extra development costs that are a waste of time (i.e power valves etc…). Then from there you just accept what you are and go racing.
Karting has done nothing but chase ‘lower costs’ for decades and what has it bought us? Not much. We still have people spending silly amounts of money.
To me it’s quite simple. You have a 100cc or 125cc engines. Direct drive. Formula A or Sudam. And then you go racing. That’s it. No faff, no nonsense. Embrace who and what you are and run with it.
I’d also do my best to divorce karting from F1 influence as I believe that’s the main drivers of the those 200k+ budgets.
Yeah but those 2 or 3 engines are built from a dozen or more engines. The question is, how do we bring back the budget for CIK event from 200k to 40k ?
The budget is mainly a function of the perceived value of said racing series for competitors. I raced a World Championship Maxter Formula A engine at Rye House club in F100cc. The engines cost around $200 each iirc. The value when we bought them had plummeted because Formula A was done and dusted at that point. They are worth a bit more now due to rarity and so on. So you can take the exact same technical components and have vastly different ‘costs’.
L206 engines could cost $20,000 each if it was on the ‘F1 ladder’ and you HAD to get the best engine you could possibly find.
Of course the FIA can increase costs if they add complexity to the engines because the cost of development will be levied on the competitors (especially when it’s for FIA championships), that’s why KF was such a disaster. It’s not purely a function of perceived value, but it plays the most important role. High perceived value x technical complexity = disaster.
I am of the mind that you make the technical regulations as simple as possible. That was there’s no extra development costs that are a waste of time (i.e power valves etc…). Then from there you just accept what you are and go racing.
Karting has done nothing but chase ‘lower costs’ for decades and what has it bought us? Not much. We still have people spending silly amounts of money.
To me it’s quite simple. You have a 100cc or 125cc engines. Direct drive. Formula A or Sudam. And then you go racing. That’s it. No faff, no nonsense. Embrace who and what you are and run with it.
I’d also do my best to divorce karting from F1 influence as I believe that’s the main drivers of the those 200k+ budgets. If Chiesa wants charge 20k a weekend to be in his awning how are you going to control that? If doing FIA karting meant you were never going to get to F1 he wouldn’t be able to charge 20k
We tried to go 125cc aircooled in France, this thing was a riot. Then they went with the rotax 
(the video is this engine against a Rotax Max)
Is that single-make clutched KFS125? Basically the easykart IAME motor? So not exactly what I mean when I say Sudam or FA. They are different racing concepts.
Rotax etc… is a very very hard beast to compete with, that there is no doubt. You need a very high level marketing effort.
Yeah it is, probably the engine I want to try the most, seems fun and easy to use. KFS100 is big in France
Sorry by fault i meant the junior CIK class, cant remember the name of it, but my point was that the classes are getting faster and is that quality or just bling?
Yes it is, but Rotax is not fault free either, but they have some really good things going, and benefitted hugely by the KF engines being a disarster.
OKJ probably. 125cc 28-30hp
No, thats whats they are running now, back In the day the senior class had around 31-33hp, the junior was 100cc and pistonport.
ICA-J then I guess 
Now that two organizations have offered support for OK-N in 2023, I’ve split the topic up to focus on the adoption of this in the US. I’ll admit the split is less than perfect with how general discussion on the concept went, but it is what it is.
By all means we can always kick of topics for other areas too. But for now, since most of the discussion has be US… we’ll start there.
I agree with this. Unfortunately in North America all the series don’t just want entry fees but they also want the profits from tires, engine importing etc. I think the sport would be much healthier if promotors stuck to promoting races, the ASN’s stuck to enforcing rules and class structures and teams stuck to developing drivers and making karts go fast. Switching to multi-manufacturer engine classes (such as OK-N) would allow the teams, engine builders or drivers to pick which engine they run instead of being forced into something by the series they are close too.
The sealed engine formula has only for years benefitted the biggest or richest teams/engine builders by buying parts in bulk and building just a few rocket ships from hundreds or thousands of parts and thus enriched the series promotors by creating an arms race.
Unfortunately it’s not really feasible to put on events on the entry fees alone, especially with how niche the sport is and more so with the expectation of drivers of having live video coverage.
With memories of drivers bringing 11+ engines to an event in FA\FSA classes very clear in my mind, I’m not buying the argument that spec series awards larger budgets any more than non spec, provided there is a certain amount of parity in the base product. IAME and Vortex’s products seem to fit that bill, and Rotax have improved since the adoption of the EVO. You can’t stop people spending money, but you can bring the pack closer together through rulesets and parity.
Where multi racing hits a wall in the US is customer support. The support relies on disparate, spread out boutique shops that are really not equipped or able to give the support, nor can they justify the cost of holding inventory. Similar story with KZ. Indy engine builders become importers for some of the lesser known brands and it turns into a diluted mess. I don’t mean that as an affront to engine builders or importers, what I’m getting at is that the market in the US is just not in a position to provide a good support model for multiple brands. As it is it seems to struggle with handful that are in common use already.
It is feasible and profitable, many do it here in the UK (we benefit from higher population density and a ton of tracks tho). Being the importer AND championship organiser however makes is VERY profitable 
I’m speaking to the US which I think is what I was responding to as well.