Toe Out and Snipers on Intrepid FK4

United in Baltimore, LO206 senior.

Well the mechanic did “get it in the ballpark” using a tape measure… I will try myself with the lasers and replace the column and spindles if I cannot get it in the window with the current components on.

Some others on this thread have mentioned having the same kart. What length are your left and right tie rods? Yousef, with that information, you can compare to what you have. Also, do you have new spindles? You could line up a new one with what you have or if not compare the two that you have to see if they are out.

It sounds like you are a little unsure of your mechanical ability. A few suggestions… Take pics before you disassemble and pay attention to the order that parts are removed (where does the washer go what side is the nut on, etc) . My other advice is to do one thing at a time. If you have a new steering shaft, do that, then move on to something else. Righty tight, lefty loosy except the tie rod ends, one end, usually with a mark, is left hand thread and the opposite is true.

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It looks like the right tie rod assembly has run out of adjustment, as the rod ends are bottomed out. There should be some exposed thread. But first put a straight steering shaft in and check tie rods for straightness

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Hard to truly tell from the pictures but it looks like it currently has positive toe. Put the snipers on there and see where the lasers are currently pointing. If they’re behind the blocks, you’re toe’d in too much and because the threads on the tie rods are fully pulled in, you won’t be able to remove that toe in. If that’s the case, extend your tie rods and go into the outboard spindle arm holes, this will allow you to begin to shorten them and remove the excessive toe. Just my initial observation.

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This and Larry’s comment support the mechanic’s observation that the tie rods are too long to get the front end aligned properly.

When he put the lasers on, they were behind the blocks.

The setup guide here says toe should be 4, which I take to mean 2 degrees of positive toe on each side.

I bought the next size smaller tie rods (270mm) along with the Snipers. I will try to rebuild the front end with my new column and new spindles if necessary. Thanks everyone for your input.

Then simply move the outer heim joints to the outside holes on the spindle arms. That should allow you to have enough threads showing to make your adjustments and get the lasers in range again. 4mm toe out seems a bit much and will make the kart very darty….I’d recommend 2 degrees overall (1mm per side) to start and adjust from there if necessary based on the turn in and handling.

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Great, thank you this is exactly the information I need. I will try to get it to 2 degrees overall with the tie rods and spindles I have, after replacing the column. If I can’t get them aligned by moving to the outboard hole on the spindle I will try replacing the rods, then the spindles if that doesn’t work.

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Yousef:
You have been given a variety of good, practical areas to check out. My only real advice is just don’t assume you did or did not previously do any of the things suggested by any of the responders.
I wish I had a dime for every time I have remembered things one way, but in actuality my memory was not accurate. As both the Spock and Sherlock Holmes characters said, “When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.” My opinion is you are not chasing a couple of millimeters here–the cause of your problems should be fairly evident. Good luck!

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Out of curiosity, are your tie rods the same length ? You might want to check another F4K and see if the tie rod lengths are unequal. The factory tie rods on my F4K are 270 mm and 280 mm. The upper steering shaft support is slightly offset to the right. When correctly adjusted for toe out, the amount of thread showing on the heim joints are equal. Just a thought.

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They are currently the same length 265mm. Do you know if an FK4 is the same chassis as an MT01? My chassis has an MT01 decal but I’ve been told they are the same and they look exactly the same.

Sorry, not aware of the distinction. Appear to be a lot more Intrepids in Canada than in the US and their internet presence is somewhat lacking. Good luck. You’ll get it straightened out.

@Yousef_Khalil My friend Charlie is recommending you try the snipers on there with the tie rods removed. Place the snipers on the stub axle as close to the outside as possible near the threads, not on them but just at the ends. This will probably require the help of a second person as you align the spindles and see where the lasers point to. It will help determine if the chassis is possibly bent or perhaps the stub axles themselves. That’s how he checked my used kart when I first got it and fortunately I was good to go. He hasn’t steered (no pun intended) me wrong with his guidance so far and is a wealth of knowledge. He’s seen this post but isn’t a member (yet). He has helped me tremendously getting my handling sorted out since I got my kart. We need experienced guys like him on here. Keep us posted on what you find and what you did when you resolve it. It helps the community if someone else comes across a similar problem.

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We have got to get Charlie to join! Was thinking about that the other day!

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I couldn’t agree more :blush:

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Thanks for this, I don’t understand what you mean by “align the spindles and see where the lasers point to.” How can I align them if there is no tie rod attached?

Move the spindles by hand, thus two people might make this easier.

Ohhh, got it! To eliminate tie rod length as a factor. Thank you!

Intrepid MT-01 is an older chassis built by SKM (Intrepid) circa 2010. There are alot of differences to a Freedom F4K. That being said, it should still be a good chassis with the right setup in 206 as its actually very similar to my 2010 SKM built (Trackmagic). The front has no camber/caster adjustments as built you will want to change that to better setup for 206.

I would remove front bar, move ride height to middle, narrow rear axle to 1000mm (not including hubs) and widen front to maximum.

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From what I know of intrepids and the MT01 is that its a full 32mm chassis. You stated you were 20lbs lighter. Did you take weight off the front?

Judging by your photos, you are definitely too narrow up front. You have 1 5mm spacer and in reality that chassis need to be in the 20-25mm wide. Leave the bar in.

Set your front ride height to neutral, then set your toe out 2mm. (1mm each side). If you get odd camber readings from the lasers, you know something is bent. However, with a bent steering column you may not get an accurate reading when doing your caster sweep.

Is Baltimore a track with a bunch of tight turns and fast switch backs or does it have alot of fast, flowy turns?

Keep in mind that these older karts are tuned slightly different than the newer modern softer chassis. It’s almost backwards. My older intrepid like yours drives like a dream with the front wide, the rear around 54-54-1/2 and both front and rear torsion bars in. Put the rear bar in, you might be surprised, especially if you are fighting a hopping condition.

Sorry for the rambling. I get overly eager when it comes to the older SKM style karts!

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